Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware!

For Flowcode users to discuss projects, flowcharts, and any other issues related to Flowcode 6.

Moderator: Benj

kersing
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1873
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 530 times
Been thanked: 1040 times
Contact:

Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware!

Postby kersing » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:33 pm

Lately some forum members ordered new Microchip devices only to find Flowcode 6 does not support this controller while trying to configure the flowchart. Or the E-Blocks PICmicro multiprogrammer does not support the device.

To avoid disappointment, before ordering hardware check the list of chips in Flowcode and if you are using the E-Blocks PICmicro multiprogrammer, check its documentation (available on this page) as well.
These users thanked the author kersing for the post (total 4):
medelec35 (Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:37 pm) • dazz (Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:29 pm) • Steve001 (Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:44 pm) • DavidA (Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:56 am)
Rating: 21.05%
 
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.”

― C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Steve001
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1081
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 440 times
Been thanked: 489 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby Steve001 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:43 pm

Also check on microchip web site.
Whilst compiling my spreadsheet noticed some of the micro's are marked as " not recommended for new designs "

Steve
These users thanked the author Steve001 for the post:
kersing (Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:53 pm)
Rating: 5.26%
 
Success always occurs in private and failure in full view.

User avatar
QMESAR
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:20 pm
Has thanked: 346 times
Been thanked: 555 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby QMESAR » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:49 am

Ordering the new devices is not the problem as they are supported by the Microchip tool chain which I do have
however just on another node there is no consistency between FC supported devices and the Programmer as there are devices which is supported by FC and not in the Programmer
To be very honest the FC tool chain is much behind an example would be the PIC16F1507/8 supported in FC and not in the programmer and this device does not qualify as an new device it has been released by Microchip in 2011
(3 years old) new device for me is devices released in the last 12 to 18 months

It a question of to support FC or just carry on with Microchip tools a tool chain that is 3 year behind has no value for me sorry to say this and I am not being rude I am honest I invested around £1500 just to find out that FC is not that regularly updated which is not the impression a person get look at the Web page

Any case no harm done this is the way a guy learn by burning your fingers

Regards
These users thanked the author QMESAR for the post:
Ras (Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:55 pm)
Rating: 5.26%
 

kersing
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1873
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 530 times
Been thanked: 1040 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby kersing » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:17 am

First of all, new can mean 'recently' released devices or devices you do not have in your inventory. I meant the later.

Regarding the devices supported by the compiler and the age of the compilers, Matrix TSL is well aware of the issue. The lack of updates for new devices in Boost C is an issue for them as well as is the age of the PIC16 compiler suite. They are working on updating the tool chains. However this is not as easy as it might sound due to licensing agreements that need to be in place between the tool chain vendor and Matrix TSL. An 'easy' option would be to allow you to download and install the appropriate new XC compiler suite from Microchip yourself, however that would mean no/minimal optimization options are active if you do not pay Microchip a license fee (not an issue for you as you own it, however a major issue for most other users). I quoted the 'easy' in the previous sentence as it still means all base code and all component code needs to be updated and tested to make it compatible with the new compiler suite, not a trivial task.

Regarding the 'inconsistencies' between Flowcode and the EB006 programmer, that is why I mentioned you need to check its supported devices beforehand. I can only speculate why new devices are not added to the supported devices list for the programmer, so I will not go there.
“Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.”

― C.S. Lewis

User avatar
QMESAR
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:20 pm
Has thanked: 346 times
Been thanked: 555 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby QMESAR » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:36 am

kersing wrote:First of all, new can mean 'recently' released devices or devices you do not have in your inventory. I meant the later.


It depends from which perspective you look at this from a MATRIX perspective this will be true ,for any developer that develop production product new means not older than 12 months
for the simple reason that devices older than this has larger prices which makes a difference on the BOM cost and the life of the product
this means a device which is 10 years old and not in FC is a new device when it gets implemented not much sense in that for me :D

kersing wrote: I can only speculate why new devices are not added to the supported devices list for the programmer,

Well this would also be an improvement if the programmer support what the compiler support

It is clear to me that this situation will be active for a long time and in this light FC and its related hardware is no option for me beside having fun with it now and again for my company we have to stay with MPLAB and the XC compiles as before
and possible invest the money into MATLAB and we can do then for dsPIC/PIC24 model based /graphical programming simulation and Automatic code generations as Microchip has the Blocksets available for MATLAB

my thinking was very wrong when I tried FC however i still like the feel and the look of the flowchart programming it is only the support for it is missing
with this post FC and it discussion is closed for me as I know now for a very long time we will have to work with the stone aged devices not a option for us .

Best regards

User avatar
QMESAR
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:20 pm
Has thanked: 346 times
Been thanked: 555 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby QMESAR » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:31 am

kersing wrote:To avoid disappointment, before ordering hardware check the list of chips in Flowcode and if you are using the E-Blocks PICmicro multiprogrammer, check its documentation (available on this page) as well.

I agree with this however then the documentation should be corect and updated

In FC you can select the PIC16F1936 and 1937 and as the EBoo6V9 is supplied with a 16F1937 I assume it can program this device,in the EB006 Supported device list is does not reflect this
so how shall we decide then if a device is supported in FC if it is or is not supported in the Mloader and EB006 as the support lits does not reflect reality :D
Attachments
13.05.jpg
13.05.jpg (108.76 KiB) Viewed 18905 times
13.04.jpg
13.04.jpg (72.33 KiB) Viewed 18905 times
These users thanked the author QMESAR for the post:
Ras (Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:54 pm)
Rating: 5.26%
 

User avatar
DavidA
Matrix Staff
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: Matrix Multimedia Ltd
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 274 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby DavidA » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:12 am

Hi,

for the post above regarding the eb006 supported chips, thanks for pointing that out, i will try and get that changed as soon as possible i can only offer our apologies and please keep pointing out any mistakes we make, we are a small dev team with a lot of documents to manage and we do slip up on these things, but we will always try and rectify them if we can.

edit (13/04/15: 10:48): The EB006 Datasheet should now reflect accurately what it supports (refresh the browser page if it has not updated), my apologies again from the dev team.
These users thanked the author DavidA for the post (total 4):
QMESAR (Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:47 am) • Benj (Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:24 pm) • kersing (Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:40 pm) • Ras (Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:54 pm)
Rating: 21.05%
 

User avatar
QMESAR
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1125
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:20 pm
Has thanked: 346 times
Been thanked: 555 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby QMESAR » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:54 am

No problem at all DavidA
Please do not see my comments as banging MATRIX ,I like FC you have some nice E blocks too only problem for me is the support for new devices :D

User avatar
DavidA
Matrix Staff
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: Matrix Multimedia Ltd
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 274 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby DavidA » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:55 am

Not at all! We need a kick sometimes!

We are largely limited on the new devices because the compiler we use isnt updated as frequently as we would like. We are looking into solving this for the next release so that we are 100% up to date with the latest chips.
These users thanked the author DavidA for the post:
QMESAR (Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:05 pm)
Rating: 5.26%
 

Ras
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:27 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby Ras » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:14 pm

If I may make a suggestion, previously posted here viewtopic.php?f=54&t=16360... It may allow one to update the list of parts supported by mLoader to match the parts working with FC.

Is it not possible for MATRIX to release to this forum the specification for the mLoader configuration files, such as 8bConfigData.csv and the like, so that anyone can add programming support for new parts?

I am assuming that programming is done using the ICSP protocol/interface so it should not be a problem whatsoever.

I went as far as editing the 8bConfigData.csv file to copy one device profile to a new line with a new device name and thus add a device that mLoader will list and use... I did not have time to actually check if the part gets programmed correctly or to reverse engineer the format of the file to find out what else needs to be changed (for example: memory size, chip ID, config location etc).

User avatar
Benj
Matrix Staff
Posts: 14299
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:48 am
Location: Matrix TS Ltd
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 4123 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby Benj » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:28 pm

Hello and thanks for your comments.

Is it not possible for MATRIX to release to this forum the specification for the mLoader configuration files, such as 8bConfigData.csv and the like, so that anyone can add programming support for new parts?


Atmel do this kind of thing and it just means things get updated and released in the wild and then before you know it it's like the AVRISP train wreck where there are multiple device drivers that only work in certain special case setups and once you install one driver it permanently breaks all the others. We would likely spend more and more time supporting people who want to make edits rather then simply fixing the problem.

A workaround for now until we can officially support the chip via the EB006 is to use a PICkit3 or ICD3, I am currently looking into how to call the Microchip IPE from within Flowcode so we can gain access to their latest chips.

Beertree
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:49 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby Beertree » Mon May 18, 2015 9:58 am

Hello at all,
thank you for this post. I looked in the list of supported devices before ordering. I then ordered the pic18f46k22. Programming worked only the first time. Now I found several posts that it is no supported by the in-built icd of the eb006v9. Which pic is the most powerful one I may use. Any suggestions?

regards

User avatar
acestu
Posts: 1720
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:36 pm
Location: Macclesfield UK
Has thanked: 787 times
Been thanked: 226 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby acestu » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:13 pm

Hi guys

I hope this may help if you are a beginner to electronics as I am:

When trying to find a compatible device for your project, if you are prototyping on a breadboard then make sure you order a device in the PDIP package, I say this because a lot of suppliers now only stock the SPDIP package and this will not fit into a standard breadboard and can make life very difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_in-line_package


cheers
Stuart
Laptop Mac Book Pro i7 retina El Capitan //// Tower/Intel i7-Windows 7 64 Bit, Toshiba i5 Laptop Windows 10
Computers are like air conditioners. They work fine until you start opening windows.

User avatar
Steve001
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1081
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:37 pm
Has thanked: 440 times
Been thanked: 489 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby Steve001 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:39 am

Flowcode lists the following device PIC16C84


From Microchip :

The PIC16C84 was easily tweaked to allow crackers to read its protected contents, simple disassemblers could then produce the source assembly files. Microchip corrected this by introducing the PIC16F84 (and later the PIC16F84A) and mothballing the PIC16C84.


I have found some of these on eaby so more than likely a copy

steve
Success always occurs in private and failure in full view.

User avatar
Benj
Matrix Staff
Posts: 14299
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:48 am
Location: Matrix TS Ltd
Has thanked: 4394 times
Been thanked: 4123 times
Contact:

Re: Check the supported controllers before ordering hardware

Postby Benj » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:03 am

Hi Steve,

I've seen people take dremmels to modern PIC chips to open the casing and try to hack the programs out of them. It's still possible if your really desperate but you need to have surgical precision and a lot of time on your hands. The really new chips might have found a way to stop this.