Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

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Jay Dee
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Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:15 pm

Hi,
I have a new un-proven PCB with a 18F25K80 28pin SOIC soldered in place. I'm trying to ICSP the device but PPP cannot auto-detect the chip and I cant program.
I suspect something silly but have gone though my usual checks and cant find anything and almost at the last resort of desolder and trash the IC just to put in another.

I have a good 5V decoupled supply (pin20).
MCLR is pulled high to 5V via a diode (to prevent programming voltage getting to Vdd.)
ICSP PGD and PGC have open jumpers to disconnect the pins from the rest of the circuit.
10uF to GND on VddCore

I have 22pF caps on an external 20MHz crystall but my understanding was that the internal Osc was used for programming so a non working or bad external crystal/cap selection would not effect programming.

If anyone would be kind enough to have a quick look at a snapshot of the PIC connections schematic I've attached it in PDF.
I've burnt too many hours on this silly little problem so any pointers or things to check would be helpful.
PIC_18F25K80_Problem_Circuit.pdf
(37.62 KiB) Downloaded 348 times

Regards,
J.
P.s. running FC5 (5.5.2.1) and PPP (3.14.20.35) which has 18F25K80 listed

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Benj » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:32 pm

Hello,

Are you programming via the EB006? If so then what is the length of your ICSP cable and are you connecting the cable up as shown here?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6663&p=14815#p14815

Also just checking there is no other chip in the EB006.

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:32 pm

Hi,
Yep, programming with EB006 V7.
ICSP link cable length is 120mm and less than 25mm of trace length on the PCB.
The EB006 and cable should be good as I can ICSP some other projects based on the PIC18F4455.
As such I suspect something stupid in my PCB layout or design. As I say, I believe the Crystal setup should not effect the programming even if its wrong.
I've chopped through all of the other PCB traces that use port B.

At this point I'm facing three possible next steps.
> I might cut every trace except what I think its essential to program the PIC.
> Try to make up a test board to program the spare PIC
> Rip the current PIC off and try a new one.
:(

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:59 pm

Hmm.. Mounted a spare 18F25K80 SOIC to a fine pitch proto board and attached wires to selected pins allowing direct insertion into the EB006 28Way DIL connector.
I think all I need connections required are;
Pin1 MCLR
Pin8 Vss GND
Pin19 Vss GND
Pin 20 Vdd +5V
Pin 27 PGC
Pin 28 PGD

I also connected for good measure, pins 9 & 10 for the Oscillator
Also put a Tant 10uF Cap between pin 6 of the 18F25K80 (Vddcore/Vcap) and Gnd as this is stated to be required in the datasheet.

However the programmer will still not recognise or program the chip... odd.

I guess I could try a DIP version of this PIC and try that in the EB006 next.
Given the extra capacitor required for Vddcore on pin 6, would the EB006 be able to directly program a DIP 18F25K80 ??

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby dazz » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:51 pm

Hi Jay

you could always try something like this, search around for more options some even come prewire as a programming daptor
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/A ... 30373.html
http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search ... ic/2294786

Regards
Dazz
To sign up to the V5 forum follow this link http://www.matrixmultimedia.com/forum_upgrades.php

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:42 am

Thanks Dazz..yep will certainly look at some of those clip on testers used to have some at a previous job..handy but can get expensive :)

Decided to do a bit of testing this evening..when Autodetect is selected in PPP.
The power supply to the EB006 is 12.4V.

PIC18F25K80 : 100ms 10V pulse on the MCLR Reset Pin, then holds holds at around 10V value until I click on-screen PPP message 'could not ID onboard chip' and then returns to 5V pull-up voltage.
The program voltage does not seem high enough? but the Datasheet for this PIC says the maximum voltage VPP for the MCLR pin is 10V ??

PIC16F88 : 100ms 12V pulse on the MCLR Reset Pin. PIC is detected.
PIC18F1220 : 200ms 12V pulse on the MCLR Reset Pin. PIC is detected.
PIC16F877A : 100ms 12V pulse on the MCLR Reset Pin. PIC is detected.
PIC18F4455 : 300ms 12V pulse on the MCLR Reset Pin. PIC is detected. PIC is on a Custom PCB and connection via ICSP lead taken from header J5.

Well..Im now at a loss. It could still be the 18F25K80's PCB board but my direct wiring of one to the programmer did not work either. I have a DIP version on order to try.
PPP shows the EB006 to be version firmware 7.
Hmm..

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:58 pm

Hi again.
My EB006 wont recognised or program a DIP 18F25K80 pluged directly into the 28Way socket. Can anyone confirm if the programmer can deal with these chips?
Do I need the latest PPP software or need to update anything on the EB006?
Thanks,
J.
P.S. I'll try pulling pin 6 leg (VddCore/Vcap) and going to ground via a Tant 10uF cap... but I dont hold much hope of this solving it.

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:53 am

Getting a bit more desperate on this one... I found a previous post on this forum that suggested that some of the newer pics cant be programmed on the EB006, is this correct?
The 18F25K80 states it is a 5V device
Do I need to buy something like the Microchip PICKIT3, do I have to program the chip from MPLAB?
any help much appreciated,
J.

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:28 pm

Hi,
Has anyone Programmed a PIC 18F25K80 using the EB006 ?
Is there any reason the programmer wont program this type of Chip?
Regards,
J.

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Benj » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:38 am

Hello,

The EB006 should always use 12V for the MCLR programming voltage. If the MCLR voltage on your device is only 10V then the chip may be damaged and eating current or the surplus 2V has caused a problem on the device. Would using a PICkit instead of the EB006 solve the issue for you?

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:29 pm

Hi Ben,
OK will try again using a PICKIT3 and a spare chip
Assuming I use the standalone PICKIT3 programmer. Do I need to do anything special when compiling to a Hex so that the PICKIT3 will accept and send the hex?
regards,
J.

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Benj » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:14 pm

Hello,

No nothing special should be required as long as the project contains configuration settings.

Let me know how your getting on.

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Re: Trouble programming PIC 18F25K80

Postby Jay Dee » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:27 pm

Hi,
Bit of an update and info for others who get caught in this corner.

New PIC18F25K80 fitted to board.

EB006 programmer would not program this chip so purchased a PICKIT3 as suggested.

I did not want to install all of the Microchip MPLAB IDE so went for the standalone program. "PICkit 3 GUI and Scripting Tool v3.00 BETA " from the microchip site.
This standalone GUI seems to be tool that effectively makes your PICKIT3 behave like a hybrid PICKIT2 and an alternative OS has to be sent to the PICKIT3 hardware. (you do loose some of the new PICKIT3 features but can revert if required)

Extract software, it does not need to be installed and seems to run OK direct from its directory. Then update the OS.
<Tools> <Download PICKIT operating Software> [Select file PK3OSV020000.hex]
File automatically loaded itself to PICKIT3 hardware.

The PIC18F25K80 is not listed in the device family lists but some PIC geeks on the microchip forum have created an updated Supported Device file. See attached file.
PK2DeviceFile..62.zip needs to be extracted and the file inside renamed to PK2DeviceFile.dat, use this to replace the file in the PICKIT 3 Programmer's directory.
On restarting the PICKIT 3 Programmer it will now list the new devices.

I connected the PICKIT3 to ICSP pins, Powered my device, loaded and sent a Hex file.

So I now have connected and written to a PIC18F25K80..... bit of a drama but got there in the end.
now just need to sort my config bits... :? but thats another thread,
J.
Attachments
PK2DeviceFile..62.zip
Supported Device DAT file for PICKIT3
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