Like to read Port B then send to Port D

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Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:54 pm

Hello all,

Well I did get my tree to work but I'm not 100 % happy with the result.

I have two states to check.
1. What I call segment control ( I have 8 displays and I use Port C bit 0 to detect that this particular Display need to be addressed )
2. Read the 7 segment incoming states ( Segments A - G ) Port B bits 0 - 6
3. Read the segments A - G and send them to Port D to activate a Servo

Events
A) I have the "Main" running looking for Port C Bit 0
B) If Port C bit 0 is detected it calls macro ( Segment )
C) In Segment is where I think I need help.
D) In Segment I have a loop trying to see which Port B bit is active.
E) When a Port B bit is detected it activates Port D bit


Wish list
- I work out a Flowcode method to Read Port B and then send the incoming to Port D

I'm using the LCD display to confirm where the Segment Macro is going.

I have added Port B push buttons and using the led bar as my servo's. I would like to add 7 servo but Flowcode says only ( 1 ) servo can be displayed ?

- If I run the program slow I can simulate sending Port B and then running the tree to send the result to Port D. I have the Loop set to loop 10 times to have time to read the Port B.

- I don't think Looping is the way it should be I don't know how to express Flowcode in any other way.

- If I run it ( As fast as possible) - I don't get time to simulate Port B before it finishes the Loop.

I would like to Read port B and send the result to Port D. With out a Loop 10 to test portb.

Port B will be receiving the info in 250 ms. So I don't think my Segment Tree will capture all the settings for Port B.

I have attached my current flow but I know or hope there is a way in Flowcode to ensure I don't miss the events.

Now when I do get it working I will be using a 20M external crystal to help with servo timing.
The PIC is ( 18F425 ) 40 Pin.

I will also be looking for info on sending the Servo connected to Port D the correct timing. Do anyone know how I would get Flowcode also to send the timing the servo will need. I will be going from 0 to 90 degree.

John
Attachments
Segment control to Servo.fcf
(33.94 KiB) Downloaded 260 times

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:06 pm

Hi John,
JLeith wrote:Port B will be receiving the info in 250 ms. So I don't think my Segment Tree will capture all the settings for Port B.

What about using a different 40pin target device?

For example with 16F1937 you can have interrupt on change on all 8 pins of portb of which each pin can be set to trigger on rising/falling edge or both.
The idea of using interrupt on change is as soon as port changes state, port interrupt will be triggered, so you can definitely log the port state in much less than 250ms.

If you stay with 18F452, then there is only interrupt on change for port B4 to B7, and unlike 16F1937 you can't select to trigger on rising or falling edge!
To detect which pin triggered the interrupt will need to be done in software.

Also what should happen when portc 0 goes high but none of portb i/p's are high?
Would that ever happen?

As for the servo, you will need to right click on the servo component thats on the panel and select Ext properties, then select number of channels (1 to 8) from the drop down list.

Martin
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:50 pm

Good Morning Martin,

It is very wet weather outside today here.

I real respect your help and will change to the 16F1937. Since I have not purchased the PIC as of yest.

On the 16F1937 change on edge for the Port B is a great idea how will I code this in Flowcode ?

Port C 0 - will only go high for 1 segment at a time. I have 8 separate Segment controls. 1 for the 8 segment displays.

I'm still using the design you helped me perfect for the original scoreboard. The new PIC16F1937 circuit is to use it to drive the new servo design to do the segment displays

If you have time could you scratch together a Flowcode example for the Trigger detect of the Port B going low in my case. The Segment control is a ( +12 ) and I can use a relay to change it to + 5 if needed.

The Port B will receive a ( Ground ) or low when active.

The original was the Flip coil would receive +12 via the segment and only the coil ( A-G) would flip when the ground happened.

So in my case I will have to have a Resistor supply + 5 as a reference so it can see the GRD form the (A - G )

I believe I will need ( 2 ) 16F1937 for each segment to control the Servo. ( 1 for ON state and ( 1 ) for off state. )

Now if I have 7 more ports to to detect the OFF bits I would only need 1 PIC.

Here is the parts
1 - Port Bit for detect segment select
1 - Port ( 7 Bits to detect the ( A - G ) to flip the Servo to ( 255 )
1 - Port ( 7 Bits to detect the ( A - G ) to flip the Servo to ( 125 )

Now if the 16F1937 can help it would be wonderful and save me a few $$

I will need either ( 8 - 16F1937 ) if it can handle On / Off. Or ( 16 if I need 2 to manage the On/Off ).

Hope this makes sense.

I was able to make the Servo activate after a couple of hours searching for Flow code examples.
Martin in Flowcode why is the Servo action not really showing the ( 0 ) and ( 255 ) rotation. I had to find that the centre is 125 and the flipping to the left from 125 is 0 and to the right 255.
I thought the rotation image servo would show this. it looks like 0 is at 45 degree and 255 is at 60 degree.

I have tried to capture the new design in a simple image attached.

I have attached the Flowcode with the servo action.

Why does Flowcode 5 only allow 1 servo image when it allows several push buttons and leds ?


Thank you once again for the help.

John
Attachments
Segment control to Servo.fcf
(37.31 KiB) Downloaded 261 times
Servo rotation.jpg
Servo rotation.jpg (26.93 KiB) Viewed 13869 times
New Scoreboard flow with PIC16F1937.jpg
(77.83 KiB) Downloaded 7323 times

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:10 pm

Hi John,
Don't know if this will help, but you can have more than 8 servos working independently with Flowcode V6:
16servos.png
(204.53 KiB) Downloaded 7304 times

No good if you need a seperate portb ioc for each servo of course.

You can download a fully functional version for a 30 day trial period, then after that you will need to purchase a suitable licence e.g professional or home and a chip pack from here

Now here is a big problem for you to think about.
The servo component is classed as advance.
Therefore you must have the professional version to allow compiling to hex or target device.

If you have got the home/student/free version you will be unable to compile.
Well that is the case with V6, im sure its the same with all other versions as well?

So before you go to far down the line you will need to check you can compile to hex ok?

If unable to compile and can't afford to purchase professional version then you will need to bit bang.
See all of This thread.
You could at least then use more than 8 bit bang separate channels on the one chip.

On the plus side with V6, the simulation is so great it should allow you to create your own moving score board activated via servos.
If you look at the datasheet (same link as above) you can see the power of the 3D simulation.

Another thing to mention is the microcontroller can drive servos direct.
No buffering required, since signal to drive servos are very low.
I believe the servos have a similar input resistance to TTL inputs so is fairly high?
Voltage range of the input is approximately 3 to 5V
The power supply to servos is approximately 4.8 to 6V

As a rough guide, the servo signal (between 1 to 2ms) is repeated every 20ms
1ms (about 0 degrees)
1.5ms (about 90 degrees)
2.0ms (about 180 degrees)

If no signal then a servo will stay in its current position.

Martin
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:25 pm

Hi Martin,

Well this is a sad day and the sunshine is happening.

So my Ver5 Student is not powerful to simulate Servo's

Martin what Version of 6 are you running ?

I like the 3D display. I really would like Version 6 with a analog version and when I compile the Hex I can see it work on the Servo.

I have attached the info on the Servo and I have 64 of the little guys. With no home at this moment. I had to give up Starbucks for 7 months to purchase them.

Now on the BIT Bang. I was reading the thread and was confused on the what I was reading on the Timer 0.

So are you saying I could use my Version 5 but I would have to do some magic to allow me to generate the Hex.

What I was thinking and it is a mush state at this moment.
I would collect the PortB and send out a Port D a Signal for say 125ms to rotate the Servo.
In fact I would have a separate servo for each of the Segments.

So could I still use my Version 5 to program the pic seeing I'm really repeating the code on each servo just 1 at a time.

I can control the current 1 servo not I just need a way to read the Port B and send the timing to Port D.

If this is possible maybe I don't need the 3D version.

Martin can you help me on the flow to Read Port B and send to Port D. I will then try to compile to hex and see if I can read 1 Port B and activate the Servo.

I was able to build a interface to my Scoreboard driver you helped with last year. I build a same LM555 timer chip to control the Servo and used a relay to detect the Ground for say segment B it would move the servo.

Only drawback is I would need a LM555 circuit and relays to activate the servo's

Then I found a link this link (http://www.pyroelectro.com/tutorials/an ... matic.html ) and in a Halloween face he could control the features. Only draw back it was in "C" code and I did not know how to enter the info into FlowCode. I'm really rusty on "C" code. Thus I like Flowcode help.

I have sent an email to Matrix and see what I would need and $$$ to get the Segments flipping.

John
Attachments
Hextronik HXT900.docx
Spec on the Servo
(29.28 KiB) Downloaded 221 times

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:50 pm

More info Martin,

I have printed off the article on the Timer0 and it relates to the EB board and I don't have the EB board.

I did load a Flowcode example with the ADC and it did what I was planning. This was the design stripped down not using the ADC to see the LCD value.

So it might be possible for me to build the project in Version 5.

I await patiently for you message in the morning seeing we are 8 hrs difference time zone. 12 noon and it would be say 8 PM at your PC.

Thank you
John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:05 pm

Hi John,
JLeith wrote:I have printed off the article on the Timer0 and it relates to the EB board and I don't have the EB board.

That does not matter.
EB bords are only for rapid prototyping.
The idea is you create flowchart, compile to Eblock if you have them, then if all works build similar circuit using your own hardware.
The EB board stage can be left out and you compile to your own hardware via your own programmer.
So timer0 and all the other components will indeed work with any non EB boards.

JLeith wrote:So my Ver5 Student is not powerful to simulate Servo's

It's just the licence will not allow any advanced components to compile to hex.
JLeith wrote:Martin what Version of 6 are you running ?

I'm running professional version with all the chip packs.
JLeith wrote:Now on the BIT Bang. I was reading the thread and was confused on the what I was reading on the Timer 0.

Taking

Code: Select all

Servo Controller 4 Channel V1 FC4 16F88.fcf
as an example
Timer 0 is an interrupt that was set to trigger a interrupt macro every 128us
If you look at the Timer0_Tick macro evey time it's accessed a counter is incremented by 1
When count is = 200 which is about 25ms then port B is set at 15 = 00001111 since it's going to control 4 servos connected to 4 channels (port b0 to b3).
At this point two counters count & count2 are reset.
As soon as count2= pulse width of a Channel then the relevant channel goes from 1 to 0.
so every 25ms (I know they state evey 20ms but every 25ms should be fine) each channel is on between 1 and 2ms depended on required duty for each channel.

JLeith wrote:I would collect the PortB and send out a Port D a Signal for say 125ms to rotate the Servo.

That's doable so long as the pulse width is correct (between 1 & 2 ms there is a bit of leeway each side).
Not if you keep the signal active say 1.5ms permanently then no extra current is being drawn as the motor would have stopped wen the built-in feedback pot reaches the correct position.
Its not like keeping a coil energized.
Martin

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:04 am

Hi Martin,

Yes you are 100% correct that my now useless Version 5 is not supported.
Flowcode 5 Limit.jpg
Version 5 limit
Flowcode 5 Limit.jpg (10.86 KiB) Viewed 13823 times


May I ask how much you payed for Version 6 and all the packs ??? Do I need all the packs ??

I will have to hold off until I can save enough for Version 6

Martin in the intern can you help me build the code for reading Port B input and sending a Led output on Port D. At least I will be able then to test the 16F1937 with my old control board.

You talked about the Interrupt on Port B that could trigger Port D.

The A-G sending for a ON state is sent to all 8 Segments and it is the Segment Control that allows the segments to activate.

So will there be a way to gate the action on Port B only continue to Port D when the associated Segment Control is received. The Segment control stays active for the entire A-G sending.

So while I'm saving $$ for Version 6 is it possible to go thru the building of Port B detection and sending to Port D.

I'm trying to find the info on how to read port b and how to send the info to port D but not getting anywhere.

I have downloaded the Spec for PIC16F1937 and having the 486 pages printed. I was read about the PortB interrupt but not how to store the events and send them to Port D.

So if I can get your help in building a Port B read and the event to trigger LED on Port D at least I will have the flow when Version 6 comes to add the servo in place of the LED.

I have placed an order to get 8 of the PIC16F1937 from DigiKey.

Now I was planning on adding a OSC of 20M to clock the Servo like the fellow used in the link I sent for the Halloween display.

Or can I use the internal OSC of the PIC ? I do see that the PIC has a OSC that goes up to 33Meg

The Pic should be here sometime next week so I can then load the Port B to Port D Led and test out the interaction with my old driver board.

Or maybe I could trigger my 7 Segment display ?

I tried to send you a Video but it was 33 meg to big. I will try and make it smaller.

John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:39 am

Hi John,
If you want to use the servo component with 8 bit pics (12F,16F & 18F ) then you will require professional version and only 1 chip pack (PIC chip pack)
Not sure how it will work as your not in the UK, but if you was then you could go to the Flowcode 6 main page then select professional and pic chip pack then enter the code for your V5 student version and see if you would get a discount.
Matrix staff would be able to help further, but my guess is it could be possible to purchase via matrix website as its all downloadable and nothing physical to send.
please wait for conformation first from Matrix staff as I could be completely wrong!

I have modified a flowchart to instantly detect whole of portb then wait for C0 to be pressed.
Note: You must not connect any LCD to any of pins in use which includes port B, portC0 or portD

One question, will there ever be a case when port B could change more than once before port C0 sw is pressed?
If so what do you want to happen?
Use the latest portb or disable portb until sw is pressed?
Attachments
Segment control to Servo v2.fcf
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Hello Martin
Foggy day to day here. Weather getting ready for Halloween

I have tried the Matrix page but it does not like my Version 5 key. I sent another email to Matrix Support asking why my key won't work.

One question, will there ever be a case when port B could change more than once before port C0 sw is pressed?
If so what do you want to happen?
Use the latest portb or disable portb until sw is pressed?


I have attached the flow for Port B and the Control. The Port B is shared to all the 8 displays and only the Displays that can flip is the one with the PORT C bit active.

Now on the Port C bit should I change it from a +12 to + 5 or is a Ground trigger better ?

The A - G bits are sent 1 at a time . Eg for Digit 1 Port B ( B -----250ms------C-------250 Port C shuts off )

John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:54 pm

I forgot the attachment

PORTC and AG.jpg
Help file for Port B and Segemnt control
PORTC and AG.jpg (68.7 KiB) Viewed 13800 times



John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:41 pm

Hi Martin,

The Sun is shining and my hope is getting stronger in seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

I think this will be the future.

Martin you were saying that I should not connect the LED to the PORT D directly ? Can use a 1.2K connected to the Port D and then the LED ?

When the day comes to put in the Servo can I connect the signal lead directly to the Port D ?

John
Attachments
ON OFF PIC.jpg
ON OFF PIC.jpg (18.69 KiB) Viewed 13798 times

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:22 pm

Glad you can see light at the end of a tunnel.

Yes it's true, you don't connect LED directly to any pin of microcontroller as too much current will flow though both LED and microcontroller causing damage.
What you do is see what the LED forward voltage and current is. E.g 2.2V @ 10mA
You know that output pins are about 5V when high.
So to calculate limiting resistor value:
(5 - 2.2) / 0.010
= 280

I would round to the nearest prepared value of say E12 series = 270 ohms

In practice you can increase the resistance value which will cause less current to flow so LED will be dimmer.
So long as LED is bright enough as an indicator the higher value resistor the better.

So connect one end of the resistor to the output pin the the other end of resistor to the anode of LED, then the cathode of LED connect to 0V

What I was saying in the previous post is don't connect the LCD pins to port B or D since they are already used.

Servos signal line draw very little current so yes they can be directly connected to the microcontroller pins.
No relay required.
Although you don't have to disable signal to servo at all since a pulse width represents a fixed position.
We will be using 3 different pulse widths just in case the pulse width is stretched during portb interrupt detection (although it maybe too quick to affect the width?).
1. 450µs
2. 2450µs
3. No signal
since that's what This web site states for full range of 90°
Martin

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:32 pm

Hi Martin,

Thank you for the LED info.

I purchased the 1.2K DIP resistors and use them as the resistors for reading the B inputs with a LED bar.

If when the time comes and we need more time I can adjust the sending 250ms timing the 250 was for the timing of the old coil flips.

So you confirm that I will need two PIC 1 for On and 1 for Off. They have separate Port B signals so I can program 1 chip as 450us and the other chip with 245.

John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:54 am

Hi John,
Just made some mods so you can see what the latest portb trigger was.

Martin
Attachments
Segment control to Servo v3.fcf
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:36 pm

Wonderful work Martin

Martin What does the LoopCount > 254 do ?

I sent you a message on a glitch I tried to flush the PortB results and reset.

As indicated the A-G Port B is sent to all 8 displays and only the display with Port C active will send the state from Port B to Port D.

We need a flow to reset after say 500ms because the result for this display was not selected. The PortB should be flushed and the program more or less starts over waiting for PortB trigger.

So out of the 8 Segments only 1 will receive the Port C. The other 7 reset.

If you set the Port C as a Switch with latching and say send Port B ( B & C ) then turn off the switch ( Port C ). Press any Port B and wait...... Then press Port B ( C ) ... switch on Port C the flow takes the mystery Port B rather then the ( C ) that would be need for this digit display.

Just need a Port C times to reset and wait for its turn.

John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:48 pm

Hi John,
I have changed flowchart so after B is triggered, then there is about 500ms (you will need to be quick on the button :P ) to activate C0 or will go back to main to wait ofr b to be triggered again.

JLeith wrote:Martin What does the LoopCount > 254 do ?

There was a glitch so when port b was reactivated it would act as though port C0 was activated.
So the loop was to allow for that glitch and would also allow switch debounce.
The loop had to be competed at least twice before acting on port c0
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Segment control to Servo v4.fcf
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:53 pm

Thank you Martin,

Martin have you ever purchased LCD 16x2 displays ?

I'm thinking I might add the LCD to the Servo design ? I have searched the net and they run from $3 on eBay and $15 plus from Digikey and other suppliers.

-------------
Martin way back you did some great electronic Scope Traces I was wondering if you could scope my main control board and see when the Segment Select or as we have it on the Servo PIC as Port C. And track the Port B outputs for ( Ball ) 1,2 3.

I have sent the Flowcode. Now this timing trace will give use a true picture on how long we would need to the Servo project if 500ms is correct. I know when the board is clearing down and turning off the Segments it might take longer.

John
Attachments
Flowcode Scoreboard Sept 29 2014.fcf
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby Benj » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:41 pm

From memory the company Futurlec sold these displays quite cheap. Elec Goldmine was another great site but I don't think they ship to Europe any more due to RoHS.

There are some great options available now for backlit or lit characters so have a look around.

Be careful when purchasing as most screens will work ok at 5V but some may not work at 3V3 so depending on your application it might not be wise to always get the cheapest one available. This has caught me out before.

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:45 pm

Thank you Benj,

It has been a long time since we communicated. Yes it is confusing looking at all the LCD and the price difference.

I will do more investigation and will check closer on the power levels.

John

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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:13 pm

Hi again Benji,

I did a search for the LCD and I would like to see if you can help explain the price difference when they all appear to say our use the same spec sheet

Here is the pictures
Futurlec - $9.90
DX.com - $3.67
Ebay - $3.36

I would think that DX gets them from China.

John
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medelec35
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:17 pm

i guess its down to quality build and how many the seller has bout in bulk to give them the price breaks.
Since they are all using the HD44780 or equivalent then they should all be compatible with flowcode.
I guess "the equivalent" that could also be making some cheaper than others?

I will setup hardware on the scope when I get a chance.

Martin
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:45 pm

Thank you so very much Martin.

Yes I think I will purchase the $9 unit from Futurlec and the one form DX and see how the compare.

I have to check out the shipping costs also.

I m off to start a PCB board for the 40 pin and the LCD.

Martin when we get to the Servo do I need to ads an additional external Oscillator to get the correct timing ?

Martin should I or better phrasing your skill ad in RS232 or leave it to the LCD ? I like the LCD. I have never worked with it in past challenges.


John

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medelec35
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby medelec35 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:18 am

JLeith wrote:Martin should I or better phrasing your skill ad in RS232 or leave it to the LCD ? I like the LCD.

That is up to you.
They both have advantages and disadvantages.
with RS232, you can print a lot of information at once and use free serial software like realterm hyperterminal.
You can make the fonts really big and stay central on the screen if required and capture all data to a text file for diagnostic purposes.
To use RS232 a professional version of flowcode is required.

LCD's are very easy to use and there are several types available.
I will post more about them when I get some time spare.

Martin
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Re: Like to read Port B then send to Port D

Postby JLeith » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:30 am

Thank you,

I think I will go with the LCD seeing I haven't used them and I see my Flowcode 5 will generate the HEX.

I going to order the LCD16X2 from Futurlec now it is not the back lite model. Have you had the chance to use LCD in non back lite vs Back lite

I'm just building the PCB board and I see the LCD has Data bits ( DB0 --- DB7 )

In the version 4 I see the LCD0 is on PortA with Data 1 --- 4 and RS with Enable
I'm going to connect Port A ( 0 - 4 ) to LCD ( DB0 - DB3 )

I will not print the PCB until I can breadboard the design.

Again thank you for all your help.

John