Flowcode 9

For Flowcode users to discuss projects, flowcharts, and any other issues related to Flowcode 8.

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gavin mack
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Flowcode 9

Post by gavin mack »

when is flowcode 9 to be released?

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Benj
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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Benj »

Hi Gavin,

Things are now up here. https://www.flowcode.co.uk/

We will be making an official announcement soon once the site is a bit more polished.

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Alan_37
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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Alan_37 »

Hi ,

I was waiting for v9 to upgrade but STM32 is PRO-only and that's too expensive for me :cry: :cry:

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Marko_2001 »

Hi Alan, same here also working on the STM32

Not upgrading but I would prefer to buy the V9 then the older version, but as you say the Pro is too expensive :(

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Alan_37 »

I would pay a bit more for the STM Pack but Pro version everything double the price :(

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by medelec35 »

Hi Alan.,
The pro version is for professional products.
If only using for home projects the much cheaper Hobbyist Version will suffice.
Martin

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Alan_37 »

hi medelec35,

That is what I hoped but no the STM32 Chip Pack is only available for PRO and that is
what I am playing with at the moment.

STM32 is why I Bought V7 and the only reason I am interested in V9.
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medelec35
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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by medelec35 »

Alan_37 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:02 am
That is what I hoped but no the STM32 Chip Pack is only available for PRO
Oh, I'm sorry.
My mistake, I did not realise it was pro only.
Martin

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by karthickefy »

Hi Benj,
What is the functions of "App Developer Addon" package in Flowcode 9? "App Developer Addon" support only for SCADA application correct? Please advice?

I would like to buy it Flowcode9 full package other than SCADA which I'm not using at all :)


Karthick.

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Alan_37
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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Alan_37 »

Hi Karthickefy

Everything is very well explained in this video https://youtu.be/c14_sgXaom0

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by QMESAR »

Dear Team.

I must be honest for many years I am using the DSP component with my free version setup(PIC PIC16 and PIC32) and now
after so many years supporting you, I have to go to professional to upgrade my PIC32 and DSP ,
Regards
QMESAR

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Steve »

Thanks for the input so far. Everyone at Matrix is aware of the concern and we are discussing it internally.

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by QMESAR »

Thanks Steve
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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Alan_37 »

Hi Steve,

At least please consider those who allready owned the chip pack in previous versions to have it @ hobbyist price .

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by MJU »

Time for a separate FC9 forum like the previous versions?

I agree that commercially Matrix does a smart job by making separate packs.
In the past I used many components, some just a few times in a project, just for hobby. But with FC8, I needed to buy several packs just to cover my needs just in that one project.
Distribute the components in packs so you can't work with just two packs, no you need to buy more because just that one component isn't in the pack you've bought...
And as a buyer of previous versions you get 50% of packs you've previously bought?
No need for that, because on certain occasions Matrix gives 50% discount to everybody.

And in the past I complained about the 550 components that they promise, but if you consider 20 different switches as 20 different components, things add up very quickly (while the 20 different switches are just different graphics of the same component).
But, Matrix needs to make money, and I'm paying them as of version 3 of Flowcode (and even bought a CD with C programming from Matrix) and it's is hard to pay for every new version after a few years while the previous version isn't 100% working.

But... this seems to be common practice in the software business?
I've paid for the DSP components in the past but now I will not buy them anymore.
I will not even buy other chippacks anymore because things get too expensive for my hobby.
My idea is that the prices and the packs scare people from buying, but this is Matrix's choice.
Why not a cheaper versions for people that don't need the 3D and stuff?

In the makerspaces I visit just mentioning Flowcode isn't popular. It's not freeware and the internet is full of free tools to learn and program microcontrollers.
But, now it seems I'm bashing Matrix while my message is that for hobbyists it is becoming expensive.

What I really hope is that the response on the forum gets back like in the good old days, If it wasn't for a few very nice guys, few problems would never be solved.. That would be a good start for FC9..

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by QMESAR »

Hi
Hope this helps!

There is a dedicated FC V9 Forum here
https://www.flowcode.co.uk/forums/

:D
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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by LiamW »

Hi everyone on this thread...

As rightly pointed out by QMESAR - there is a dedicated v9 forum now running at https://flowcode.co.uk/forums/. We'll be on there to answer any queries etc. that you may have.

Just to introduce myself: my name is Liam Walton and I am one of the people at Matrix who oversees the licensing and pricing decisions we make. At this stage, we have not rolled out a mass launch of Flowcode 9 - as we're aware we have made some decisions that are slightly different to how we have done things in the past. I can assure you there are very good reasons for making these decisions, but we were always of the opinion that there could be some issues that would arise as a result.

One of the decisions that seems to have caused some questions etc. is that to only allow certain chip packs and feature packs for pro users. As said, there were valid reasons for us doing this, but following the feedback we have received, internally we promise to review the decision and decide on any action that we may need to take in terms of possibly reversing or changing the decision. I hope we can do that this week, I will ensure we keep you in the loop.

In the meantime - it is great to get any feedback about the product, so I thank you all for that. :)

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by MJU »

LiamW wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:36 am
Hi everyone on this thread...

As rightly pointed out by QMESAR - there is a dedicated v9 forum now running at https://flowcode.co.uk/forums/. We'll be on there to answer any queries etc. that you may have.

Just to introduce myself: my name is Liam Walton and I am one of the people at Matrix who oversees the licensing and pricing decisions we make. At this stage, we have not rolled out a mass launch of Flowcode 9 - as we're aware we have made some decisions that are slightly different to how we have done things in the past. I can assure you there are very good reasons for making these decisions, but we were always of the opinion that there could be some issues that would arise as a result.

One of the decisions that seems to have caused some questions etc. is that to only allow certain chip packs and feature packs for pro users. As said, there were valid reasons for us doing this, but following the feedback we have received, internally we promise to review the decision and decide on any action that we may need to take in terms of possibly reversing or changing the decision. I hope we can do that this week, I will ensure we keep you in the loop.

In the meantime - it is great to get any feedback about the product, so I thank you all for that. :)
The new forum isn't accessible with my current username/password.
The board administrator isn't reachable because the function to contact him is switched off.

Thank you for your reply Liam, but this is still bitter to read.
It would be bad business if you're choices for the price setting would not be covered by "decisions" :-)
It's normal that you've thought about how to put V9 on the market.

But, as I said earlier, Flowcode is always behind the facts.
The newest addition in V9 is support for the ESP32. This chip is 4 years old!
Why couldn't you just release a new chippack for V8 for the ESP32?
Are you aware that there are many FREE Arduino sketches and great freeware for this chip?

550 components? This kind of makes me mad.
8 LED components, 9 switches that are all the same?
Only difference is the way it is shown on the panel.

The packs for the components is something that is commercially very smart, but will people that bought FC from the beginning aren't used to this.
It's like you've always bought a car and could choose what options you wanted.
But then the sales division of the carmaker has a brilliant idea.
The car is a standard price, but if you want wheels, these are included in a pack. In that pack are a lot of other essential things.
Except, the steering-wheel. This is in another pack. Unfortunately the button for the car-horn is in pack 3..

I know it's the new way of doing business to make people buy stuff and make them depend on consumables that only the one manufacturer makes.
But people don't like that.
Certainly when the company every ones and a while launches a new model on which users that bought earlier versions get a discount.
But, after a while everybody gets that discount! (recently: 8 Apr 2020 + 28 May 2020: 50% discount on FC8)....

Wouldn't it be better to just include all the components standard in FC and make users decide what other functions they wanna use?
The 3D function, the SCADA, the API, the creation... and other functions.
These can be useful for some users but not for people that occasionally uses FC.

I'm using FC from version 3. I can tell you that I contributed to FC.
In the good old days there was great support on the forum. Today, if it wasn't for some great guys, the support on the forum would be dead.

No, I think that it's better (like you've mentioned) to review the price setting and really reward people that already shown to support Matrix in the past.
Get rid of these horrible packs or distribute them more honestly.
Make sure that people who want other things then just programming a microcontroller (the core of this program), can buy these features and others don't.
It's all about the price Liam.
Better still: release a separate chippack for the ESP32 for FC8.

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by QMESAR »

Hi All.
I fail to see the reason behind PIC32/STM32 and DSP packs to be only available to PRO users

(1) The world is moving very fast to 32 bits MCU and even today many private user are moving to 32 Bit ,Microchip has a full Arduino support package if you by a Microchip sketch like uC32, you can use the Arduino free IDE and all libraries for free.(PID controlllers and Basic DSP function available).No advocating use ARDUINO however it is a reality in the market

(2)many guys bought and support the chip packs like STM/PIC32 in V7 and V8 as they were released and the DSP component(because of the PID controller not all the Signal functions) example bought PIC32 in V7 when released paid again in V8 to upgrade and now in V9 this investment is lost or spend money for PRO license which is not cheap,the same for DSP .

In my opinion the chip packs should be available for all users such as the component packs at least for people which already invested in the packs new user that might be valid to make it a part of the Pro system

Regarding dsp you should consider to split the pack into a full DSP pack or a PID Controller pack as for new users and the old users keep it as is.the reason even if you use a small 8bit and do hobby controllers or Robotics a PID controller is a important part of the code and you limit your private /hobbyist from having a PID controller which will result in people looking somewhere else for such support.The full DSP function is another story.
Yes I agree if you want to use full dsp functions that this is most probably a PRO user however PID everybody is using even if you make a small private home temp controller

Just another important thing to consider/keep in mind many of your users are located in countries outside EU /England and US for these people having FC licenses is extremely expensive. :D so loosing already invested money does not go down well

Just my thoughts :D :D
Regards
QMESAR

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by mnf »

My 'five cents' worth..

I do (to a degree) see why the packs are limited - they seem to have more 'problems' due to the complexity of the target (so, only software i2c on ARM for example) - I suspect they cause a lot more trouble per 'user' than other (possibly more mature) chip packs?

I'd like to see a lot more work on bug fixing and bringing new components to the system. New 'features' (say 'block and pseudocode' views in v8) are okay but unless the underlying system is sound - users will drift away. The forums certainly seem less lively than when I joined 3 years ago.. Users seem to 'hit' problems too often (I'm not sure this is FC's fault - digital electronics isn't necessarily simple), but while I enjoy the challenge of making things 'work' others have different goals and may just move to a different toolset. There seem to be too many people hitting problem after problem - this maybe 'user error' - but it doesn't give a good impression on the forum?

So - I think MatrixTSL should play to it's strengths (I use FC because it is fun and productive) - but it needs some 'advertising', maybe in the form of articles in Elektor or EPE (Ben has several projects on Instructables - but maybe could work one into an article?). The forums could do with a 'showcase' of projects to stimulate interest too - either with or without code). Maybe some judicious 'pruning' of old topics (perhaps the new v9 forum is a step towards this?)

Pricing is a big issue. For a hobbyist there are alternatives (B4R or XOD for example) which are free- so FC needs some compelling reasons for people to use it.

There are a lot of new features I'd like to see implemented - but I think making chip packs more granular (so I can just 'purchase' the MCUs I need) and also component packs (as MJU pointed out it's not good to have to purchase a complete pack to use one component) - hobbyist pricing needs to be more competitive too - (I'd really like to see a Steam edition!) - to get user numbers up.. Having large numbers of very similar 'components' is also confusing - perhaps it's the 'nature of the beast' - but, for example, would it be possible to have a single 'lcd display' component - with controller type then selected in properties (and other properties changing to reflect this choice). This could radically simplify the user 'experience' - with the necessary files '#included' in the background. Or a single 'button' with multiple selectable representations on screen.

So - if version 10 isn't ready in 2 years, but V9 is bug free and running smoothly with many more components and with a large user base - then I, for one, would be very happy.

Martin

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by Alkaline »

Hi

I have been using flowcode for several years, and compared to other development tools it has helped me a lot. I agree on some criticisms, less on others.

The world is full of development tools and flowocode doesn't necessarily have to be the universal tool. I don't think matrix people think about this goal either. Comparing with free tools is not the most correct thing. Is there really a free tool that supports the amount of chips that flowcode supports?
As for the bugs ... who doesn't have them? We use licensed software for thousands of euros / year and I can assure you that emails are sent out every month for support or troubleshooting. It's normal!

What is missing, as mentioned by other users, and needs to be improved is full support for all HW functions.
I think ESP32 can actually be a good workbench.
My advice is to make all the HW functionality of the chip available to the user. I want to use i2s, well there is component and i can use it, i want to use dac, i want to use i2c in slave mode, same thing. Obviously, making components compatible for all chips is difficult (if not impossible).

But some very famous hw and used by everyone (arduino, esp32 and some pic) should be able to give access to all their peripherals

I understand that each user has different needs and making everyone happy is the hardest thing!

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by LiamW »

Hi everyone

Following a lot of debate and discussion this week, I wanted to let you know that the decision to lock certain chip packs and deatures for use only by Pro users has been reversed, all users can now purchase all available packs and features in v9. See here: https://flowcode.co.uk/buy/.

Thank you to everyone who has given feedback so far and please, continue to offer it. I am enjoying listening to the various thoughts and opinions on how we might move forward as we look to continually improve v9 in the weeks and months ahead.

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by QMESAR »

Hi LiamW,

Thank you this is indeed a good decision ,This is one of the reasons I have been with MATRIX a long time you people are always open to listen to your users,Great stuff and a big thumbs up.
Regards
QMESAR

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Re: Flowcode 9

Post by katela »

Thanks LiamW, it's really a great decision to allow every user type to buy any chip pack and features. Many users will appreciate this.
Free online Microcontroller Tutorials & Projects for beginners to advanced.
Website: https://www.studentcompanion.co.za/cate ... e-for-pic/
YouTube Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/user/StudentCompanionSA

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